Once upon a time there was the Green Mill. There still is, but only the name survived.
In the Twin Cities it’s a well-known restaurant chain specializing in pizza. Before that it was a 3/2 beer joint, sort of like Cheers … everybody knew everyone’s name … but more poorly lit and with stickier floors.
It was, to put a word on it, a community. Then they added deep dish pizza to the menu, it became a go-to place for a more affluent crowd, and while its profits soared its community-ness evaporated.
Once upon a time there was the Little Wagon. It was where you went Friday after work if you worked for the Minneapolis newspaper. It was where we built strong relationships and weak livers.
But over time the whole idea of congregating after work for conversations and conversational lubricants just faded away: More and more of us left work on Fridays to start the weekend with our families, leaving socializing at the Wagon to a shrinking group of loyalists who worked on their cirrhosis the way more fashion-minded individuals worked on their tans.
And then, once upon another time there was the local association.
On my resume I brag (well, I mention) having served as president of the Minnesota Telecommunications Association. We met monthly at a local hotel, September through June, to socialize, compare notes, enjoy dinner, listen to a speaker talking about a topic relevant to the assembled multitude, and then disband so as to re-band at the hotel bar.
But over time we went from taking over the bar, to taking over a few tables at the bar, to occupying a couple of booths, to … well, to go home to our families.
As bar attendance declined, so meeting attendance declined. Eventually the MTA faded out of existence.
And with it went all of the personal networking that used to be one of the main attractions for joining.
Which leads to this week’s questions:
- Is the demise of the local association … the sort with regular events that provide opportunities to socialize (and, yes, “network”) … just my perception based on my personal experience as biased sample? Or is this a real phenomenon?
- To the extent the trend is real, what’s your substitute? Where and how do you make the social connections local associations used to be a vehicle for?
Bob’s last word: My research says I’m just out of touch – the associations and associations of associations report that associations are a growth industry.
But given the source, some of this analysis might be nothing more than the expected boosterism, and more might be that the reported trends are based on sample bias: There’s no reason to expect the same level of survey response from failed or failing associations than from successful ones.
Bob’s sales pitch: Do you like the ideas and approaches you read here in Keep the Joint Running but want more depth? I’ve written a dozen books to give you just that. You’ll find the list here.
What you said immediately reminded me of a book entitled “Bowling Alone” by Robert D Putnam, about the erosion of American social capital. I remembered it from an NPR discussion with the author. It must have found some resonance even though I never read the book. The book was published in 2000. At that time, the internet was disrupting social interactions, but the sealed bubbles around polarized groups hadn’t been set so firmly.
Things continue to change, so simple chance provides some hope for improvements.
“Bowling alone?” Man, that says it all in two words!
Bob,
My small sample agrees with your small sample. I’ve been with the same employer (state government) for almost 30 years, in the same role for 24 of that. Early on in this position, attendance at the local industry association was encouraged, and the annual meeting was strongly attended (I’d estimate 150-200). It was a great way to network and exchange ideas without the issues of (the current project) being foremost. There was a change in leadership 20 years ago, and attendance was discouraged, so I stopped going. With another change in leadership, I was able to attend again. I expected attendance to be down, due to COVID, and the lack of a meal, but I was shocked that there were only 16, and one was on a sales pitch mission.
Take care, I’ve been reading you articles for about 23 years now.
-Dan
Thanks for sharing your numbers with us, Dan. I sure hope both of us are outliers.
I’m just wrapping up reading The Organized Mind by Levitin. One of the [many] things he discusses is how much we are wired to seek out novelty. We also like socialization. However, as technology has evolved and there are so many new things to try and so much new stuff out there to look at, view etc, actually getting together with real people, and spending 2-4 hours with the same people talking about the same stuff seems really boring. A very sad direction and it will be interesting what the current generation will be like in 40-50 years
Interesting point. And while not about the topic I wrote about this week, I wonder how my friends in the organizational change management business would try to square Levitin’s idea that we’re wired to seek out novelty with their proposition that people just naturally resist change.
Your point reminds me of Isaac Asimov saying how happy he was that the world wasn’t populated with people like him, because of how boring that would be.
I think this has been in the making for a long time Bob. Back in the old days kids used to get kicked out of their houses to play with friends all day. Heck, in my neighborhood people left their doors open and routinely just dropped by.
Today kids have scheduled playdates and parents are their Uber. What was me and my bike is now a nice ride in a car.
And obviously the text message has made the telephone call obsolete.
I remember having to actually approach someone to ask them out for a date. Now an algorithm handles that.
Times change and only history can decide if it was for the better. No doubt that “socializing” is now much more of a electronic thing than in person.
I’ve seen the same changes you talk about and I think you are spot on. Who knows, maybe the younger generations have figured out how to develop relationships electronically.
Family is more important than alcohol and smoke filled rooms making idle talk, which would to often be inane when not blasphemous and uaually filled with cursing. But whadda I know, I never went to such events, so I am just guessing from some novel I read once.
You could try going to church with your family as a far better alternative.
Eternity is far more important than making more money here for a few years.
And if you must network then use your professional organization. Or fake it with a group like IEEE that is so large they cover almost any technology now.Z367
But then agilistas are not really professional as I would use the word, unless you consider them ‘professional’ hackers who do not have any true professional group to join.
Quite honestly I hadn’t paid attention that closely, but I think you are absolutely right. I remember in days past when we would get together after work at a local pub or bar but it gradually faded away. Also, there used to be a lot more various 1-day or even half-day seminars on all kinds of topics, but those have faded away as well. All of this exposed my to other thoughts and and ideas. As a result my sphere of people I interact with has reduced to just those in my company or vendors I do business with. Till this article I had not considered how we have become more isolated from people and as a result not getting exposed to new ways of thinking. I certainly have access to all of the information that I could ever care to read, but people are not really part of it anymore.
Is this good or bad? I tend to lean towards bad. Interactions with other people are important, not everything, but important and if all you see is the same ideas from the same group of people then everything starts to stagnate. Reading is all well and good, but a discussion with a person on the same topic is much stronger.
So, how are you going to fix this?
How am I going to fix this? Sheesh! You don’t ask for much. The folks running local associations and association chapters don’t seem to have found a fix, and that was their job.
My oars in the water are these comments, which I continue to hope create some sense of a KJR community.
The Amateur Radio community (Hams) has been experiencing the same decline in face-to-face meetings even before Covid. Some call it the graying of the community. I can recall meetings in the 1980’s where more than 100 hams showed up at monthly meetings. Today 20 is a huge turnout.
Irony- the Captcha shown below is a ham radio callsign.
Note. There is a problem with your website. My email is and has been for years: [email protected], but your “leave a reply” programming think’s it is invalid.
Our local associations are also drying up, with amateur radio breakfasts on Friday morning being the last in-person thing that I attend with contuity. On-line “communities” are quicker and easier to join and attend, and $WORK doesn’t support travel or association memberships like they used to. We amateurs will tell people that the internet goes down in a crisis, but for the 99.9% of your life when the ‘net is up, it’s hard to beat as a place to meet like minded individuals with similar interests.
Now we just need someone to throw us out of the house and make us go play with kids who have differing views ad backgrounds. Otherwise we may all wind up in echo chambers and let our ability to accept new ideas atrophy.
Which leads to an interesting (to me at least) question: Are on-line groups more homogeneous than in-person ones?
So Bob, does the MTA have a facebook page? I hang out with a group of friends every night, though not in person, and minus the bar tab. Common interest is computer gaming, and it does not interfere with being with my family. If a local ham radio group would setup an educational game (maybe start with something simple teaching Morse code), I could hang out electronically with them a couple times a month. Hmm, can’t remember the last time the local Linux group got together in person, but we keep in touch via electrons.
In the case of the MTA the decline in participation preceded the rise of social media.
I’m delighted to hear your local Linux group is thriving this way. How many participants do you have?
Making social connections has become more difficult over the years, even non-work-related ones. My son makes interesting and diverse connections with people in the smoking area of various places. I wish there was a healthier option.
Churches remain a good option for meeting people, but it’s critical to find one that aligns with your own beliefs. (Or lack thereof.)
Why meet in person if you can just call someone?
Why call someone if you can just send an email?
Why email if you can text?
As we improve in communication efficiency we decrease in personal connections. Those personal connections build durable relationships and trust and, as you’ve pointed out, without trust no group (business or otherwise) will thrive.
When you meet in person you start with pleasantries: “how are you” etc. The point of these is not communication of information but a statement of “I’m here and ready to listen to you.” This has a chance of leading to trust. A text message doesn’t.
A long time ago, in cities far far away there was the Data Processing Management Association (DPMA) that became the Association of Information Technology Professionals (AITP). When I lived in a town with a chapter I belonged and attended monthly meetings. There I met people in all levels of IT from across the county. There I received experience in various chapter leadership positions. Then I moved to another city and the nearest chapter was over 100 miles away so my membership lapsed. Many, many years later a group called Tech After 5 (TA5) began in our town and eventually spread over several states in our region. TA5 avoid membership fees (sponsor companies fund the gathering), lack the opportunity for internal leadership growth, and dodged the rigid structure of most Associations, but TA5 provides a monthly opportunity to chat with other people who worked in and around IT while enjoying a free drink of your choice. I attended regularly until COVID. The organizers developed digital work arounds for now. We’ll see what happens next. The moral of the story, people still get together to talk tech, the excuse just keeps changing.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/networking-over-coffee-registration-167757012741